Di’Vennci Lucas [00:00:00] When it comes to being poor and first-generation, there’s a lot of things just in the world that make you want to be silent. Rather, not make you want to be silent–that’s a weird way to phrase that–that silence you. There’s a lot that silences you. And so fighting that–that sense of, “Okay, I should be quiet about this because it brings people discomfort.”

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:00:00] So I was born in a small, more rural town–Americus, Georgia. And that is in the southwestern region of Georgia, the state of Georgia. I grew up as an only child. I grew up low-income. Colloquially, poor [chuckles]. And being poor in Americus… it was almost like everyone was in the same boat when it came to finances for the most part. And I lived on the south side of Americus, which was typically the poorer side. It was actually once an all white neighborhood that my grandparents were living in.

Cenobio Hernandez [00:00:47] Fort Worth is like, it’s in Texas, and it’s like a mostly industrial town. It’s not much, there’s not much going on. It’s factories and very long stretches of road. You have to drive to get anywhere. One of the big things about that sort of town is that it was very segregated. Like all the Latinos lived in, you know, one part of town. All the white people live in another part of town. The Black people live in another part town. All the Asian people lived in another part of town. And the way the schools worked over there is, you pretty much go to the school that’s like in your neighborhood. Or in practice even though it’s like, I don’t know, kind of a diverse city, you never really interact with any of the kind of people. So it’s not, you know, racially or like, even economically diverse.

Vanessa Ochavillo [00:01:32] My childhood was… I mean, I think with anyone, a mixed bag. I had very loving parents. My parents are Filipino immigrants, so they moved to Guam when they were in–I think age between age ten and thirteen. So when they went to high school in Guam and kind of worked their way up. And so by the time that they had me, my mom was working. My mom had finished her– I think she had finished a trade program in accounting. So it allowed her to clerk, kind of do more assistant work, accounting departments. And I think my dad, he never finished college. He had–the highest degree he got was his high school diploma. Which he said he almost didn’t get because he was busy working. He had from from the moment he could work, he worked at hotels as a waiter. With that backdrop, my childhood was like a happy one. Like my parents had very predictable schedules with their jobs. Which meant that we always had family dinners together. For the most part, they were able to pick me up at the exact same time every day. And my parents are both really good cooks and prioritize homemade meals. And it was also kind of an economic necessity that they cook. So a lot of my childhood I think of my parents cooking and us eating together. But I was very aware of how we were strapped for money all my childhood, and it varied over time. Like there were years, several years where it was really, really hard. And then I think maybe towards gigh school, at the end of high school, it was still hard  but with side gigs like cleaning offices at night, my parents were able to scrape a little bit more. But, you know, that just meant having less time to do anything else or to rest. And by then, you know, me and my brother, who’s three years younger, we were helping our parents when we could cleaning offices.

Harry Pham [00:04:05] So growing up, my mom worked in a nail salon, and my dad worked as like a printing press technician. You know, I would consider us low-, maybe low-middle income at that point. And growing up, you know, my parents never really showed that we were poor. As in like they wouldn’t tell us to be super cautious with money. But they were definitely–looking back, I could tell that they were saving a lot for us. As in they would pay for piano lessons for us. They would pay for swimming lessons, you know, anything that they think would help us academically.

Chloe Thai [00:04:43] I think some memories from Philadelphia is like my mom would prepare all these like extra homeworks for me. Like after I finished my school homework, I would have my lines of Chinese to do on like the college ruled spiral notebooks and stuff. And she’d prepare math questions for me to work through that she would just like look up. Now looking back on, I feel like it was very like a lot of effort to do. Or like my mom never went to college either. She just finished high school and then started working and stuff. So I feel like her high school education, like, she taught me as much as she could until I kind of surpassed that. But I feel like I was always doing extra work. It wasn’t like… it wasn’t like, “If you don’t get 100 on this we’ll like disown you” or anything. It wasn’t like that strict of a thing. But I feel like it was very encouraged from the beginning.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:05:38] I had this idea that I would be the first one to go to college, and I had that as a goal in my mind. And I figured if I’m going to be the first one to go, I might as well go as far as I can academically, as long as my interest was still there. Even if my interest was not still there at that point in high school, upon applying to colleges, I was thinking, even if I don’t want to do it, I have to do it. Because the common denominator in my family being consistently through the generations before other than race and ethnicity that I saw was educational background, or educational, just education level.

Cenobio Hernandez [00:06:27] To be honest, I honestly didn’t think about college. I–it was not something that most people tend to think about right? Typically you kind of just either go to work later or you go to the community college nearby. It’s like, we don’t even think about that until after you graduate or or whatever. I honestly wasn’t really thinking that far ahead. The only reason I applied Stanford was because a lady came in, like a Stanford recruiter lady. She came to our high school. I don’t know why, to be honest. And this lady ended up being the one that reviewed my my essay that I turned in, and she wrote a little note on the paper. I still have it hanged in my room. And she showed us, you know, a little pamphlet. It had little palm trees. You know, I had never seen a palm tree before in my whole life. I was like, and it was, you know, it was Palm Drive, and Palm Drive has like, you know, those rows of palm trees and has a church. And I was like, “Wow, that’s beautiful.” And I had never seen palm tree before, that seems like, you know, a wonderland. And I opened the book, you know, and everyone’s smiling, you know. And all the words are cool. They’re like, “Come learn about anthropology, come learn about English.” And I’m like, “Wow.” You know, honestly, it was a little bit arbitrary, it wasn’t that calculated. But that’s actually why I ended up applying. That’s pretty–I mean, if they hadn’t come to the school, I probably wouldn’t have even applied.

Vanessa Ochavillo [00:07:39] You know, I would be outside the guidance counselor’s office and I would see what kind of brochures they had, like what schools were recruiting at our school. And it was actually like not schools like Stanford or, you know, the top colleges in the U.S. It was like University of San Francisco, University of Portland, Chaminade or University of San Diego or Seattle University. And all of these are like Jesuit or Catholic universities. So when I saw that like most of the seniors my freshman year were mostly getting into those schools, it just like–I just came to believe that that was like my match schools. But then when I was a junior, a guy from the boys school, like the brother school, who is actually someone who went to middle school with me. It was just like, once he got into Stanford, like everyone knew. And then that was when I was like, “Oh, maybe I can apply to Stanford.” And like if he was able to get in, like maybe my shots aren’t completely in the dumps. And I happened to have a very encouraging counselor who like–I don’t think she really knew like how college worked. She was just like this encouraging Filipina lady. And she just thought I was like a nice girl and like deserved the world. So she was like a mom. So she was like, “Yeah, I think you can do it.” And like her voice combined with the news of this guy getting into Stanford kind of like overrode–even like at least I can suspend the doubt for a little bit to like at least put it in an application.

Chloe Thai [00:09:26] So I applied there and then I got in and I was like, “Wow.” I remember like the getting in was like–I was so happy but it was like such a–I don’t know, I feel like such a clear moment in my life. Because I was like, it was like the admit day or whatever, like the decision day, basically. And I was working, you know, my minimum wage cashier job,  checking out groceries and stuff. So I had this Friday night shift and that I remember getting the, seeing on my work break like the email. I only saw the title,  so I’m like checking out people’s gallons of milk, I can’t just open this email right now, I have to wait till I go home. So then I go home and then I tell–I think my dad is picking me up and I tell him like, “Oh, the the email’s here but I’m going to like–I want to open it alone by myself, like, I don’t want you there, like I’m going to go to my room.” Then I like go to my room, open it off… and then I just like, scream. I’m like, “Oh my God, like I did it.” And then like my dad’s in the basement, so then I run down to the basement and then I tell him, and then I was like very emotional. We started crying and everything. Yeah. But yeah, he was very proud.

Cenobio Hernandez [00:10:44] I remember I got the letter and then I open it and I was like freaking, ecstatic, you know. And then, and that day, I get picked up by my dad. And, you know, I tell my dad, “Hey Dad, I got to Stanford.” And he’s like ,”Okay, good son.” And we just drive home. And I was just really confused, you know, why–usually when you see the videos where your parents are supposed to get really excited and stuff, you know. Like “Dad that was like your one moment your whole life to get excited, why aren’t you excited?” [chuckles]. But you know, later I found out it was because it was a lot of, you know, conflicting things going on for him when he read that, right.

Vanessa Ochavillo [00:11:22] Stanford was still this like far away–like I didn’t, I didn’t understand what it would ever be like until, and I just had to make–you know, it feels like you’re just always making decision, like at least for me. It just like–my experience with a lot of my education up until that point was like, I just like don’t know. So I just feel like I’m making decisions off of like thin air. There’s very little grounds, like I don’t have an informed somatic experience. Or like a grounded experience to say like, “Oh, I want to go here because the campus is beautiful and it felt right to be there.” I was just like abstracting the whole time.

Cenobio Hernandez [00:12:00] While I was applying to college, I got a lot of mentorship and essay editing from a local librarian. This librarian, she was like an old white lady. I didn’t realize it then but she was from the rich part of Fort Worth, you know? And when I got to Stanford, she told me, “Hey, you know, you’re going to go to Stanford,” you know, just like my dad told me, “You’re gonna be around the rich people, you know? And you’re, you haven’t really been around rich people. You, you know, you you went to these public high schools. You’ve only interacted with people like you. You know, you got to be ready and prepared to talk with white people. You know, rich white people. You’re probably going to have the most powerful white people in the world in that school.” And I’m like, “Okay yeah, that makes a lot of sense.” And then, she told me, “Well, you are–I’m going to make a training regiment for you. I’m going to make a training regiment for you to be cultured.” She told me this crazy thing at the time, and I was like, “Wow, that’s really cool” at the beginning, but now thinking about it’s kind of fucked up, you know? “You know, when you go to go to that school, you’re going to be like a noble savage. You know, you can be like this random ass poor kid, but like you’re like extremely refined. And because of that, that’s going to like elevate you, like set you apart from everyone else.” And so she started this training regiment with me and basically once a week for she would assign me this homework, right. She would, she would give me a set of movies to watch. Like I think one of the movies, I forget all the movies, but one of the ones that made me laugh now looking back at it, she gave me–she made me watch the Facebook founder movie, The Social Network, she made me watch that movie. I think she thought it was Silicon Valley or whatever so everyone was going to be like that. And then, once a week, I would go over to her and she would  take me places. She would take me to like art exhibits or she would take in museums or she would take me to some historical site in the Fort Worth area. And then she would, she basically teach me how to talk about those things, right. So we got in an art piece at the art museum, and she told me, you know, “You see this piece? It was, you know, whenever if you ever see this piece with, you know, the white person or whatever, you should like, say these things and this thing, you know. It was from this time period.” She was actually like, you know, straight up training to be interacting in these, you know, high societies or whatever. I could talk about the same things that, you know, they’re interested in, but like, I can’t share the same experiences they have, you know. Like I look at like at those paintings or I look at arts and maybe movies and stuff, and I can like co-mingle and like talk about it with them. But it’s impossible for me to relate to their lived experience. And that’s kind of the gap that I can’t–no matter what training I get or whatever, you know, I can’t fill that gap, right, that difference between us.

Vy Luu [00:00:00] I’m just curious to hear if you remember what it was like in the first couple of days coming to Sanford.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:00:06] I remember not seeing a crack in the pavement [chuckles]. Like not a piece of trash, nowhere. I was blind to all the flaws. I was not seeing any bad thing. It was almost like, it was almost like I had stepped into a Percy Jackson novel, you know when they go to camp, whatever camp they go to for the demigods, you know? I was, I was just in awe at–everything just looked so put together.

Chloe Thai [00:00:42] It was interesting just seeing like, I think… It wasn’t immediate, but I could tell, like just even on moving day, like, you know, the stuff people are moving in is very different. Like, you know, I remember seeing one of my roommates, she had a whole, like, very professional makeup box and it was all Bobbi Brown makeup. So that was like a very clear picture of like, wow, she must be wealthy. Her whole box is like Bobbi Brown makeup.

Vanessa Ochavillo [00:01:10] I think like being first gen was like walking into a lot of new situations and then having this like, “I guess this is normal.” And then having to adjust, but then not, and then feeling like, “Okay, I’m gonna, I am going to adjust how I behave or like how I think so that’s the normal for me too.” But just like never being sure of that either. Like there’s a disconnect and I don’t feel at home and I don’t feel comfortable. I didn’t feel super comfortable in the classroom. I didn’t feel super comfortable with people who had very good intentions to be my friend, but just like the ways that they hung out just were like foreign to me. And I really do chalk that up to being first-gen, that new feeling that like, “Oh this is the first time this is happening to me.” Like it just kind of made me want to look over my shoulder and be like, “Am I doing this right?”

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:02:12] Wanting to be a member of everything going on, but not wanting to share my background and my history and my story. In fact, when I started in Larkin, I was like, you know, things are going to change. I’m not going to be a Di’Vennci, I’m going to be DV. I’m not going to talk about being poor or first-generation. I’m going to walk as if like my mother got her PhD. Or as if, you know, I come from money or at least have a mid-upper, middle class background or something like that.

Cenobio Hernandez [00:02:53] In terms of like economic social class, I feel like I expected everyone to be rich and I had already practiced to perform that. I was already expecting it. It came as a surprise to me that’s not, that’s not what I experience at all. But anyway, so I ended up going to Okada. And like you go in and like I’m one of the first people there. And I put my stuff there and then my roommate, my roommate, Tony comes in later, a little bit later. And then I forget the interaction, but we start talking immediately. We just clicked immediately. You know, because Tony, I think he’s like a mix of like Chinese and like Vietnamese from his parents. And he grew up very, very low-income, like he grew up in the worst parts of LA. So we start talking and I ended up finding out we have a ton of things in common and like, we just clicked so well and like, immediately I feel safe around him, you know? And, you know, it’s at this point that I had my first experience with like–like figuring out that I can relate with people that are different with me because we can relate on class.

Harry Pham [00:03:54] Especially as like a freshman to see, you know, how many people choose to get a job. Like, just like a part time job on campus. Not necessarily anything related to their major. Literally just like a job for money. And that’s where I started working at the Stanford Law Library and met some other friends my year that were just looking for a job for money because they needed it, not because they wanted the experience or anything. One more thought on that too, it’s interesting too, the summer after freshman year, you know what to do during the summer, trying to look for internships or just get a job to make money. And you know, as an upcoming sophomore, you don’t have much experience. So unless you’re brilliant at what you do and knew exactly what you wanted to do, I’d say finding internships would be hard, especially paid ones at that time. So I’m pretty sure that I found that a couple potential, like just unpaid internship experiences or like research things on campus. But I opted to go a different route, which was working for student housing during the summer where you got free room and board and pay, of course. And I think that’s one of those examples like instead of unpaid experience versus a job that gave me a decent amount of money, I chose the one that gave me a decent amount of money so that I didn’t have to worry as much about finances the following year.

Chloe Thai [00:05:20] Growing up, I took drawing classes, I painted. I was like very artsy and I think I didn’t even consider creative careers initially at Stanford because I’m like, I need to choose a major that’s going to make me money. So like, being a doctor is a good way to make money.

Vanessa Ochavillo [00:05:37] For whatever reason I seem, I can’t seem to like, enjoy this as much as other people are because I have a lot of stress going on with like the things that I think I need to like make Stanford worth it, if that makes sense. Like I think in my mind I’m at Stanford to get a good education and I can’t just like squander it by dancing. I can’t squander it by going to like these late night food runs as fun as they are. So I think whenever that kind of reminder creeped up on me, I was like, “Yeah, dance is frivolous.” But then it’s something that I love. And at the same time, there are these people who are like kind of just leaning into the frivolity and pure fun of it. And I kind of always felt like unfair that there were people who could just have that kind of experience with something that I also loved but could never enjoy at that level.

Cenobio Hernandez [00:06:40] One value my parents taught me and I think a lot of immigrant parents teach their children is, you know, hard work. Everything good in life comes through hard work. And my roommate Tony had the same experience, you’re supposed to work hard if you’re doing it the right way. So we, he wanted to be a mechanical engineer from beginning. He knew that. I was very open to new things and he was doing the classes and I wanted to be with him. So I took some engineer class with him. And the classes were very difficult. Very challenging. He and I would be up to like four in the morning regularly doing the p-sets. And it was like that basically the whole three years up to junior year. And then senior year, I–at that point I hadn’t done any study groups, you know, it was just me and Tony doing everything by ourselves. We didn’t really talk to anyone else. We never went to office hours, we never saw any outside help. It was literally just us, you know, just us and the textbook. And so senior year, I think we’ve both been struggling in classes. So we we have to take a little extra classes, right, we have to get like a higher workload in order to be able to graduate in time. Like hard, hard classes at 20 units. And, you know, at some point, me and Tony were talking like “Hey man, this isn’t working. You know, we’re like we’re pulling all nighters every day. And we’d be kind of doing that for repeatedly.” And we’re like “We’re doing something wrong,” you know? Like our classmates, look at our classmates, our classmates, they they seem to be sleeping at 10 p.m. every day. They’re getting better grades than us. Like, what are we doing wrong? Like why everyone doing better than us and not working as hard as us? Like what is wrong? Like what is wrong, what is going on? Are we just dumb? Now ultimately what it end up being like, this change it completely change my whole experience at Stanford to ever be honest. And I wish, if I had gone and done it again, I would have known is that like what the other people have been doing is they had been going to office hours. They had been asking for help. They had been in study groups and they had been doing all that sort of things, you know. And like Tony and I, we considered that cheating, you know. Because going to office hours the TA would basically just give you the answer. And if you go in study groups, basically, you just kind of compare notes. I mean, to us, that basically seem what you’re basically–that’s cheating, you know, you don’t–you’re not supposed do that sort of stuff. But yes, senior year, we just couldn’t do it anymore, you know. It’s just too much and too much was at stake where we were like, you know, let’s just compromise on our ethics. Let’s do office hours. You know, even though it’s unethical, let’s do office hours.

Vy Luu [00:09:09] [Laughs] Just hearing this statement: “Office hours is unethical.”.

Cenobio Hernandez [00:09:13] [Laughs] This was against our honor code. You know, it’s against the honor code to do office hours. So we like we can’t do it. You know, it’d be a disgrace. It’d be a disgrace to our families and our parents to do office hours. But, you know, we can’t do it anymore. It’s like it’d be even more disgraceful to not graduate. So we actually end up going to office hours and it just transforms everything. Things are easy. I’m like sleeping at 11 p.m. instead of 4 a.m. anymore. And like, I mean, study groups, exam seems so easy and predictable now and like, everything just seems to click and make sense. And, you know, that’s sort of like the immigrant mindset and like a working hard to get what you want and if you’re not working hard, you’re not doing it right, you know, really, really put me, you know, in a bad position. And, you know, I think a lot of other people came in and were like, “You shouldn’t work hard. You know, you should do–you should work smart.” You should work smart to make things easier. You should work smart to make things as easy as possible for yourself. And that’s just not not a mindset that, you know, my parents or, you know, my family or anyone near me have.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:10:16] There were some things that you notice by being there. Like who moves on the sidewalk. It’s a weird example, but it’s an example. Like if you were to have two people, there’s one sidewalk and you’re walking like kind of in the midway of the sidewalk as opposed to the right. Who moves from that position of centrality, right, can be mapped onto like how you identify. And if you identify as a minority of some sort, like more likely to move. And I was realizing I was moving for these predominantly white people, predominantly living on the row. And so I just stopped moving and I just started to take up more space on purpose [chuckles] and see how people reacted. And there was like a range from indignation to just like minor inconvenience.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:11:19] And I started to get involved with the First-Generation Low-Income Partnership. And I think that that was the beginning of me really realizing the power of my background and my identity and the resilience and, you know, adaptability that it provided me, has provided me. And to not feel shame around that. Because it’s very easy to feel shame about being poor or having a poor family or anything like that, because that’s just how capitalism and socialization has set things up to make you feel ashamed because you’re not winning the game or you’re not performing well in this system.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:12:06] It all culminated, my whole Stanford experience, culminated in my Black graduation speech in 2017, where I really reflected on a lot of the growth and change that occurred during Stanford. And one of the things was when I came to Stanford, I was running away from home, getting as far away from home as possible, even though I came from a very loving family. I was just tired of being poor. And so when I graduate, by the time I graduated, it has transformed into me wanting to return home.

Vy Luu [00:00:00] I’m curious how you think about how going to Stanford has affected your life post-Stanford, if that makes sense?

Harry Pham [00:00:08] How it affected my life after… I think it gave me a solid leg up. It’s hard to say because it’s hard to tell the influence that just having Stanford on on your degree helps. So is that the main reason I got into grad school? Probably not, but it probably helped a lot. Was it the reason I got my first job out of grad school? I’d say not the main reason, but probably did help as well. I think, you know, when I tell people, I go to Stanford… Which is like an interesting point too. It’s like if someone ever asked me where I go to school, I never lead with Stanford. I always just say, “Oh, I went to school in California.” And if they ask further questions, then I say Stanford. I think it’s one of those things that I’ve just kind of–I don’t know, gotten used to. I’d rather not say Stanford because it just feels weird to me because their first reaction is usually like, “Ooh, Stanford.” And, you know, [laughs]. It makes me a little uncomfortable, I’d say. And I don’t know if you feel the same way.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:01:12] Yeah, people hear the name Stanford and they’re just like–the assumption that, you can see it and their expression changes. It’s such an interesting process to say like, “Yeah, I went to  Stanford.” And they just readjust how they approach you. Some people. Other people are just like, “Okay, that’s great.” And then they move on like a normal conversation. But others like, “Oh my gosh, Stanford. How was that?” Then they have numbers of questions and it’s not just me, but my mom has a Stanford plate on her car that I was able to buy her with my job at Facebook. And I was like, “That’s a milestone for a FLI person if I ever heard.” Like being able to buy both of your parents vehicles. And the number of times people will stop her at grocery store parking lots and say, “You’re the Stanfrord mom.”.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:02:07] And when I was at home, I was like, you know, I could be doing more. I could be doing more. And I said to myself, I wanted to be more involved with politics. So by chance, there was also a time when in 2018, one of the commissioner seats was up for grabs. I chose one particular campaign and I just sent an email. I looked at his campaign website and I saw that I agree with most of his platform, much more so than the other candidate. And I just reached out and said, “Hi, I’m a recent Stanford graduate. I think that I can help you out with the campaign,” and me thinking fully that I would just be a volunteer. But for them, they saw the name Stanford and they were like, “Would you like to be co-campaign manager?” And me not knowing how to just say no. I was like, “I will assist the campaign manager, but I will not be co-campaign manager.” But yeah, there’s a lot of weight to the name. And I think that there are certain opportunities that I’ve been given. I know that there are certain opportunities that I’ve been given that other people have not simply because I went to these institutions. Has nothing to do with me or my work product.

Harry Pham [00:03:34] At a first pass, you know, people are like, “Oh, this kid went to Stanford.” And I think often when people hear that, the first image that comes to mind is just like some rich kid. They still see Stanford as like a a wealthy person school, if you will. They don’t really know the break up of how many actual low-income students are. So I think whenever I tell someone I go to Stanford, their first assumption is that I guess one, he’s smart, but two, he’s probably rich and maybe the first is true, but the second not always so.

Vanessa Ochavillo [00:04:04] Stanford taught me, I want to say something along the lines of how Stanford taught me about what happens when you have resources. I feel like the resources in the form of like financial aid, obviously, whether that’s financial aid for you to go off and do an internship or financial aid for you to get an education or to afford materials so you could play and experiment with art or whatever or do your own research project. Stanford was–it taught me what happens are, when you have resources to do that. And it also taught me how clunky it can feel if you come to those resources if previously you didn’t have them. Because I guess I felt pretty awkward and clunky about how I expended my resources. And I feel like Stanford taught me how, specifically the the mentors I met, I think they taught me about how like–I feel like my mentors are sort of a representation of the network you get at Stanford. You know, this is what happens when you like network enough that you find these people who are willing to go to bat for you even though lyou don’t feel like you deserve it. Or the people who are going to get you somewhere where you want, get you closer or to the place that you want to get to professionally. Stanford taught me about–like it opened my eyes by exposing me to a network of people. A network of people who have varying degrees of resources and social capital. And I think the fact that I’ve rubbed elbows with people of all classes and cultures–I just feel like Stanford taught me how to how to network. I’m not very good at it, but I’m just like, I’m in it. And like, I know that now, if I need something, I can ask around enough that maybe I’ll find someone who can help me.

Di’Vennci Lucas [00:06:33] I might have been, I might have grown up FLI. And I still may be FLI as in first-generation. And I’m still a student. So, yes, I’m still low-income because I have no income. But that’s about to change very soon. And I had the opportunity recently to go to Ghana through the law school. And I do have a passport and I do have a lot of privileges, several privileges that other FLI folk do not have. I had privileges simply by attending Stanford University. And so all of those things were privileges that I had even through being low-income.

Harry Pham [00:07:17] I think from a just overall college perspective and this kind of goes back to what I got out of Stanford, is that it’s really a place of not just about academics, but I’d say just more worldly as well. So, you know, I went to Stanford to learn just about, I’m going to study engineering and get a job. But I’d say that attending there, I mean, the people I did [meet] helps me have a better or a different perspective. Or better and different perspective on life and how I view things around me that I don’t think that I would have gotten elsewhere if I was going somewhere just purely focused on academics. So I think it does make me more well-rounded as a human. But that’s not to say that other schools don’t offer the same experience.